Well that'll be bob in a hedge againHippy wrote: What's counter steer?
Fao: Bikers!
Moderator: Trig
Hmm, reading up on it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When riding a bicycle or a motorcycle, counter steering is a method of preparing for a turn by a small, momentary turn of the handlebars in the opposite direction. The necessity to counter steer becomes noticeable above a minimum speed. A bike can negotiate a curve only when it leans towards the inside of the turn, at a camber angle appropriate for the velocity and the sharpness of the turn. At higher velocities, the bike has a strong natural tendency to remain upright. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When riding a bicycle or a motorcycle, counter steering is a method of preparing for a turn by a small, momentary turn of the handlebars in the opposite direction. The necessity to counter steer becomes noticeable above a minimum speed. A bike can negotiate a curve only when it leans towards the inside of the turn, at a camber angle appropriate for the velocity and the sharpness of the turn. At higher velocities, the bike has a strong natural tendency to remain upright. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Counter Steering is something that can rarely be taught, it's something that you find yourself doing (or not) instinctively.
Say you are going round a corner at speed when leaning the bike the bike will naturally corner, should said corner start to get tighter and your leaning all that you can by simply counter steering (pointing the handlebars in the opposite direction of the corner) your bike will tip slightly further but also will tighten the corner your bike takes therefore preventing you doing a Bob and ending up in a hedge!
Not really something you need to worry about until you either start racing 125's or get a bigger bike
Say you are going round a corner at speed when leaning the bike the bike will naturally corner, should said corner start to get tighter and your leaning all that you can by simply counter steering (pointing the handlebars in the opposite direction of the corner) your bike will tip slightly further but also will tighten the corner your bike takes therefore preventing you doing a Bob and ending up in a hedge!
Not really something you need to worry about until you either start racing 125's or get a bigger bike
Last edited by Jase on Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All my cornering is done using counter steer , Was the only way to get the Darmah to change direction in a hurry due to it's rather long wheel base 
and I just naturally do it now . Also the faster you go the harder it is to overcome gyroscopic procession (The wheels and crank are just massive gyroscopes at speed ) so a little counter steer gets the bike over . When you get your bike Hippy find a quite stretch of straight road , get up to 30 or so mph then apply light pressure to one side of the bars and see what happens , Just watch out for hedges 
and I just naturally do it now . Also the faster you go the harder it is to overcome gyroscopic procession (The wheels and crank are just massive gyroscopes at speed ) so a little counter steer gets the bike over . When you get your bike Hippy find a quite stretch of straight road , get up to 30 or so mph then apply light pressure to one side of the bars and see what happens , Just watch out for hedges can't wait to do my cbt now, which is this sunday, then sunday after that its tranny van/few litres of diesel/motorway/wedge of cash time !
just been down to bike shop in doncaster while im down here. Anyways I went to get a lid, but I struggled quite badly due to my glasses been flimsy tarty ones with no frame round glass etc.... anyways after an hour of doing what class said ....trying everyone on! i've finally found an AGV for £170...... which is apparently very good for what I require. Not sure you can really put a price on my brains/head
There were 2 other ones, made by shark which were cheaper and let me retain good tight fit but be able to put glasses on but they were out of stock. This AGV one is but im going back 2moro to see when its coming in my size...... is this about the right sort of cash for a low-mid range lid ? AGV is good from my limited knowledge to right ?
cheers andrew
just been down to bike shop in doncaster while im down here. Anyways I went to get a lid, but I struggled quite badly due to my glasses been flimsy tarty ones with no frame round glass etc.... anyways after an hour of doing what class said ....trying everyone on! i've finally found an AGV for £170...... which is apparently very good for what I require. Not sure you can really put a price on my brains/head
There were 2 other ones, made by shark which were cheaper and let me retain good tight fit but be able to put glasses on but they were out of stock. This AGV one is but im going back 2moro to see when its coming in my size...... is this about the right sort of cash for a low-mid range lid ? AGV is good from my limited knowledge to right ?
cheers andrew
The answer will vary from just about everyone with regards to helmets, some say money, some say testing and some will say brand names.... it all comes down to one thing.... FIT
If it doesnt fit properly then your brains will be mush after one off, if a £99 helmet fits better than a £300 one then the cheaper will do a better job protecting your skull. Thay all go through the same tests before they get the gold sticker on the back of the helmet and they all do a very similar job.
A friend of mine had his £69 helmet save his life all because the fit was perfect. Get one that fits your head, not that fits in with what people say
If it doesnt fit properly then your brains will be mush after one off, if a £99 helmet fits better than a £300 one then the cheaper will do a better job protecting your skull. Thay all go through the same tests before they get the gold sticker on the back of the helmet and they all do a very similar job.
A friend of mine had his £69 helmet save his life all because the fit was perfect. Get one that fits your head, not that fits in with what people say
aye, at the end of the day, it's a lump of polystyrene wrapped around your heed! i doubt i'll be spending that sort of cash.
Providing it has the safety symbol on the back, and fits properly, that's fine by me, wouldn't make much difference if i fell on me edd neway
Kidding, but still, that seems a bit much to spend on a helmet for a first bike?
Providing it has the safety symbol on the back, and fits properly, that's fine by me, wouldn't make much difference if i fell on me edd neway
Kidding, but still, that seems a bit much to spend on a helmet for a first bike?
Hippy wrote: aye, at the end of the day, it's a lump of polystyrene wrapped around your heed! i doubt i'll be spending that sort of cash.
Providing it has the safety symbol on the back, and fits properly, that's fine by me, wouldn't make much difference if i fell on me edd neway
Kidding, but still, that seems a bit much to spend on a helmet for a first bike?
Forget about the price tag, honestly it means nothing except fancy graphics and a brand name, ALL helmets have to pass the same tests, the MOST important thing is fit, a cheap Shark helmet that fits will be much much more protection than a £500 AGV lid that is a tiny bit loose at the front or sides.
Just hold an egg in your hand and shake it about up and down and side to side, then put it in a shoe box and do the same
Just don't fall for the salesman talk spend all your money!
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Human-Shield
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Jase just wondering what you think about some of the things ive been reading about helmets.
1. some cheep makes and some off ebay just have the sticker on them. They havnt had the testing and are just crap.
2. the testing differs. What i mean by this is the gold sticker is an impact test on specific areas of the helmet. This means that some of the cheeper ones have had these areas thickened to get them through the test. The problem is that the helmet can fail quite dramatically in the other areas in an off. This is most worrying.
I agree about the fit. ****** all use if you dont try it on before you buy.
1. some cheep makes and some off ebay just have the sticker on them. They havnt had the testing and are just crap.
2. the testing differs. What i mean by this is the gold sticker is an impact test on specific areas of the helmet. This means that some of the cheeper ones have had these areas thickened to get them through the test. The problem is that the helmet can fail quite dramatically in the other areas in an off. This is most worrying.
I agree about the fit. ****** all use if you dont try it on before you buy.
What i've learnt is, dont buy one off ebay because you simply cant try it on first, it's not a case of just finding your size, different helmets have different amounts of padding.
Not all helmets have a sticker even if they're approved, look for a label inside.
'Certified for racing' stickers mean naff all.
a good fitting helmet shouldn't be able to move AT ALL around your head, put it one, strap it up and try to move it while keeping your head still.
second hand helmets are an option ONLY if you spend the cash to have it x-rayed and checked.
Once it's dropped once, cut the straps off and put it in the bin, it's useless.
Not all helmets have a sticker even if they're approved, look for a label inside.
'Certified for racing' stickers mean naff all.
a good fitting helmet shouldn't be able to move AT ALL around your head, put it one, strap it up and try to move it while keeping your head still.
second hand helmets are an option ONLY if you spend the cash to have it x-rayed and checked.
Once it's dropped once, cut the straps off and put it in the bin, it's useless.
Human-Shield wrote: Jase just wondering what you think about some of the things ive been reading about helmets.
1. some cheep makes and some off ebay just have the sticker on them. They havnt had the testing and are just crap.
2. the testing differs. What i mean by this is the gold sticker is an impact test on specific areas of the helmet. This means that some of the cheeper ones have had these areas thickened to get them through the test. The problem is that the helmet can fail quite dramatically in the other areas in an off. This is most worrying.
I agree about the fit. ****** all use if you dont try it on before you buy.
Some good points, I could go on forever about points to look out for, fit, interior lining, removeable lining, double d ring vs seat belt style buckles visor connections etc etc etc but then you'd always find something wrong with all the helmets you ever see!
Don't buy life saving equipment from e-bay, it's a bit like asking Michael Barrymore to lifeguard your pool party! Always buy from an authorised dealer or a reputable high street shop. Also dont buy mail order, have you seen how parcels are loaded onto vans?
Don't buy second hand - EVER.
As for testing, well all test have to be equal to ensure that they are fair however they are a lot more stringent than you think. Like I've said previously the gold sticker is the sign of a helmet that meets the required tests. If you have ever seen the make up of a helmet you soon realise that the shell is very very similar from the £50 to a £500 lid. I've actually cut apart a Takeachi £50 lid and it is the exact same construction as an arai lid. Without cutting each and every lid I ever wanted apart you'll never know except relying on the testers to not only do impact tests but also detailed inspections.
I have a friend that had a high speed off, he flew 50 yards through the air and landed on his head / back, his helmet was a £50 Takeachi cheapie job however it was the only one he could find that was the correct fit. When he landed the helmet not only absorbed the impact but also split up the back, doing exactly what it needed to to spread the impact. Although my friend broke his neck his life was saved by his helmet doing its job, his surgeon said he was amazed that he didn't have a skull fracture as well.
All I can say is take advice from salesmen but also be prepared and research so your not taken for a ride. There will always be someone on the internet that has had a bad experience with everything so don't put too much weight behind people that express their opinions online!
Screwy wrote: AGV have been around for years and make decent helmets , £170 sounds about right for a middle of the range helmet price wise which model is it ? At that price it must be one of the composite shell models ?
Just pulled this off their website screwy;
Code: Select all
AGV S-4 - NEW for 2006
The AGV S-4 is constructed from Fibreglass and Kevlar ACF2 (Advanced Composite Fibre 2). It features a ventilation system with air intakes and rear extractors, a dry comfort removable and washable interior with hygienic treatment, Quick Release retention system and a clear, anti-scratch, anti-fog polycarbonate visor with XQRS (Extra Quick Release System). New for 2006!
Sizes: XS (54 cms) - XL (62 cms) Colours: Black/Silver
J&S Price: £169.99
@Hippy, don't get me wrong I have a budget for a lid, but i've no problem spending what I am on this one because it fitted the best and allowed me to use my glasses properly. Another point is I don't intend to be buying them very often so its only a one off outlay.
While we are on the subject of helmets..... A lad at work said some of the major names do a replacement scheme. Eg. you smash your £250 helmet, send it back to them and for a smaller amount (his example was £50) they will send you the same helmet back out. Does anyone know if this is actually the case or just wishful thinking ?
cheers andrew